and he says probably, i want to go back to the rate clinton had 39.5 and i want to raise capital gains to 25%. do you, lou dobbs, give him that if there is something else that he has to give? >> i certainly would not give him that without conditions. >> bill: but you would think about it it? >> absolutely. that's what i'm saying. the dobbs plan says that reasonable, reasonable, what does that mean? that a little bit of tax hike on the wealthy, and wouldn't be a little bit. what is it estimated to be about something like a billion a year. >> $82 billion. >> bill: a year? >> per year. >> bill: that's still not -- all right. so, but then to get those tax hikes, what does lou dobbs want as far as spending cuts? >> well, you know, first of all i wouldn't negotiate in the media it would be the first rule that i would suggest. >> bill: since we are in the media we have to do that. >> we are going to violate our rule. >> bill: violating. >> the first thing i would do would say that the condition precedes all of this is i want to know first, have you been campaigning, mr. president, for literal